illegal immigration and impact on medical field

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  • #107931
    rydysrydys
    Participant

    I may be opening a real can of worms here, and I can’t say that I’ve read through every post here, but here’s my opinion.

    I think that everyone should be admitted to colleges/med schools based on their merits alone–not on their country of origin, race or skin color. To me, this includes affirmative action.

    I was sitting in a med school admitting office waiting for my interview, when someone came in and asked about requirements for “minority application”. The requirement given was MCAT cumulative of 15 and GPA of 3.0. If I, a white female, had those stats, the school would have thrown my application away right away. However, simply bec. the applicant had a different skin color, they would consider admission for them. First of all, this is not considering each person based on her merits alone, this is discrimination just the same way as favoring a US citizen is. Second of all, it made me think–how do I know that the doctor of color who is treating me is really good enough, or if they just passed through bec. it boosted the “minority” numbers for the school?

    Don’t take this the wrong way, I know some excellent minority doctors, but in the long run this can compromise the quality of medical education and if the general public finds out, it will make people avoid minority doctors.

    My father was the victim of “quotas” bec. he was not admitted to his first choice college bec. they had filled their quota of Jews. I was denied admission to my second choice college. Although I was not told why, I suspect it was bec. they already had enough whites. My SAT and high school scores were on the high end of competetive for that college, and on my interview they told me that they wanted me there.

    Basically, I agree with the above that we need to get rid of quotas, stop evaluating people on meaningless things like place of birth and color of skin, and pay attention to things that count.

    #107934
    francesca 'smomfrancesca’smom
    Participant

    I haven’t read through all the posts either but the ones I did didn’t represent my point of view so I wanted to add it. I don’t believe in dividing the world up into countries and then fighting to keep people out of “your” country. Idealistic yes but hey, so isn’t “treat others as you would like to be treated.” This country has been the instrument of terrible conditions in other countries-through imperialism, invasions, wars to protect the financial interests of corporations, etc. Our history includes raping, murdering, and enslaving the native americans who were on this continent first. To now stand here and try to push other people out, and/or deny the incredible contributions they make is in my view morally reprehensible. I believe that individual countries and smaller untis and larger have their benefits in organizing human activities propogating our heritage, but our loyalties should be to the human race as a whole and how to best help all of us survive and thrive. As a doctor, I am always happy to see “illegal immigrants” benefiting from some of our medical care-although really only theaffluent and well-insured get the best. Still, it’s good to see them and I have been proud to treat them.

    #107937
    Doc201XDoc201X
    Participant

    Originally posted by rydys:
    I think that everyone should be admitted to colleges/med schools based on their merits alone–not on their country of origin, race or skin color. To me, this includes affirmative action. .

    Starting a new thread to keep from hijacking this one!
    😉

    #107940
    dnw826dnw826
    Participant

    Originally posted by HealthBiz:
    What about the genocide of the Afrikaners and other whites in South Africa? What about the genocide of white farmers in Zimbabwe (Rhodesia), a land that was once the Breadbasket of Africa? Does anyone know the significance of the phrase, “Just wait until Mandela dies.”

    What about the attempted systematic enslavement, rape, and killings of Scots and Irish? These things happen to people no matter the skin color. It’s not a matter of whitey vs. the world. You are right. But I don’t know the significance of the phrase. I am not too well versed in much African genocide outside Rwanda.

    #107942
    SweetSweet
    Participant

    We can keep listing atrocities that would fill yet endless pages… PBS ran a documentary last month about the Armenian genocide… what about that… and what about Cambodia… and what about Catholics massacring Protestants in France in 1572… and what about… and what about…

    The bottom line is that atrocities of one or even many group(s)/individual(s) do not excuse anyone else’s horrific deeds. So I am trying to figure out exactly what is the point of listing every horrible act one can think of or google?

    The fact remains that unless one is a Native American (100%) then one is an immigrant in this country as of (at the very most) 400 years. And, compared to most of the illegal immigrants of today, the ancestors were far more “illegal”. The “illegal immigrants” of today are not coming into the neighborhoods of the “natives” and running them out of their homes and off their lands at gunpoint. 😉 Additionally, 400 years is a relatively short period in history, and MOST people’s family trees do not go back even those 400 years on this continent, so most of us who are discussing this issue are more recent immigrants (maybe, 30, 50, 100 years of history of being continuously born and raised in the US in all the branches of the family tree).

    I think we all agree that the system of dealing with immigration/immigrants is in need of serious reform, but being hostile towards immigrants, in my very humble opinion, should really not be a part of the solution.

    #107945
    HealthBizHealthBiz
    Participant

    There is a white genocide currently taking place in South Africa and Zimbabwe. The phrase, “Just wait until Mandela dies,” is being used to taunt and scare South African whites. Many black South Africans aren’t even native to the region as the country has been bombarded with African immigrants and their descendants from other countries. Now, I ask you, who is more African? An Afrikaner (white South African of Dutch descent) whose family has lived in South Africa for hundreds of years, or a black African whose family immigrated from Zambia two years ago. It’s not politically correct to talk about the genocide of whites, though, so I doubt the mainstream media or Oprah Winfrey will be doing a heart-strings-type story on their plight anytime soon. :no:

    #107948
    chalkchalk
    Participant

    Just a quick note. I am a privileged, wealthy white person who qualifies for WIC, Medicaid, and various need-based government grants. I live in the nicest of neighborhoods, go to the nicest of schools, see plays on a regular basis, etc. Qualifying for WIC doesn’t mean someone is really poor or disadvantaged. I don’t use WIC or Medicaid because it would truly be an abuse in my case, but I have friends with no student debt and promising lucrative careers ahead who are on both.

    #107950
    dnw826dnw826
    Participant

    Originally posted by chalk:
    Just a quick note. I am a privileged, wealthy white person who qualifies for WIC, Medicaid, and various need-based government grants. I live in the nicest of neighborhoods, go to the nicest of schools, see plays on a regular basis, etc. Qualifying for WIC doesn’t mean someone is really poor or disadvantaged. I don’t use WIC or Medicaid because it would truly be an abuse in my case, but I have friends with no student debt and promising lucrative careers ahead who are on both.

    See, that ticks me off. Because I am not privileged and poor and they cut off my medicaid for me and the kids. My SIL and her SO make much more money than we do. Her parents (she is totally spoiled) pay a lot of her bills, she shops constantly, and she gets medicaid and food stamps. Things they told ME we can’t have, though we make less and have three kids instead of her one. I want to know how they figure these things up.

    Luckily we just moved and my dh got a somewhat better job, so we will be more poor after the money for insurance gets taken out, but at least we will be able to see a doctor.

    #107953
    dnw826dnw826
    Participant

    In the news today:

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/23/dobbs.may24/index.html

    So is it really hard to migrate to another country from the US? How hard is it to get into med school in the UK after all? What about financial aid?

    #107956
    AnnaMAnnaM
    Participant

    dnw826, you are in Illinois, the Land of Blago. Just sign your kids up for AllKids. No income guidelines. I have no objection to providing health care coverage to kids whose parents can’t afford it, but Blago is spending my pension to cover everyone’s kids, no matter what their income, and that’s just wrong, with the state up to its ears in debt.

    #107958
    dnw826dnw826
    Participant

    Originally posted by AnnaM:
    dnw826, you are in Illinois, the Land of Blago. Just sign your kids up for AllKids. No income guidelines. I have no objection to providing health care coverage to kids whose parents can’t afford it, but Blago is spending my pension to cover everyone’s kids, no matter what their income, and that’s just wrong, with the state up to its ears in debt.

    Actually, for some reason I got refused. But we are in NC now, anyways. Yay!

    #107961
    AnnaMAnnaM
    Participant

    Oops, then you gotta update your profile. I think AllKids starts June 1 or July 1, so I guess you missed it.

    #119017
    DONOTDELETE ****DONOTDELETE**
    Participant

    I don’t think that Illegal Immigrants have an easy time on accesing medicaid services or insurance coverage by the state.
    According to many insurances and free-care laws, if you are not a legal U.S. citizen you do not have the right to apply for standard insurance and free medicaid, etc.
    They do offer a type of medicaid for emergency type of services for immigrants, or maybe Volunteer centers will offer their support.
    *There may be a few exceptions to this. so Idk.
    Remember that Medicine is about providing excelent care to individuals regardless of their status! 🙂

    #121125
    latestagelatestage
    Participant

    [quote=pathdr2b]

    And the rounding up of the Japaneses was simply an imhumane thing to do which is probably why they received financial reparations for their trouble. However, since the Japanese are used in this example,can anyone deny the great contributions they have made, particularly in medicine and science to this country?

    My grandfather, grandmother, father and five aunts and uncles spent over three years in the camps, first in Texas and subsequently New Jersey. They were second generation Japanese living in Peru where my grandfather was a community leader and successful businessman. At the time it was quite common for Japanese to emigrate to various South American countries where established communities of Japanese expats already existed. Note the previous president of Peru Alberto Fujimora is of Japanese descent.

    Part of the US response to the Japanese threat during WWII was to pay a sum to the governments of these countries to essentially expel the Japanese in order to help neutralize the threat. The Peruvian government was paid 25 million. My grandfather was arrested and sent to an interrogation facility for several months. Their business, home and assets were seized. My grandmother was pregnant, with five children under the age of 8. Eventually the entire family was rounded up and sent first to an intermediary camp in Texas, and subsequently New Jersey. His experiences are available in his published memoir for which I will be happy to provide a link via pm if anyone is interested. Independent of politics, it’s simply an engrossing read to a footnote in history.

    After the war, his decision to become a US citizen was determined more by his complete and utter poverty than having any particular choice. He was one of the primary proponents of reparations and lobbied for years for them. Reparations when finally paid amounted to ~10k decades later. That he died before being subjected to this slap in the face is rather a blessing.

    What happened to the Japanese during WWII wasn’t any more or less inhumane than what happened to a lot of people, it was a war, shit happened, blah blah. However, please don’t delude yourself about reparations or compare enforced refugee status with illegal immigrant status.

    #121130
    latestagelatestage
    Participant

    [quote=HealthBiz]There is a white genocide currently taking place in South Africa and Zimbabwe. The phrase, “Just wait until Mandela dies,” is being used to taunt and scare South African whites. Many black South Africans aren’t even native to the region as the country has been bombarded with African immigrants and their descendants from other countries. Now, I ask you, who is more African? An Afrikaner (white South African of Dutch descent) whose family has lived in South Africa for hundreds of years, or a black African whose family immigrated from Zambia two years ago. It’s not politically correct to talk about the genocide of whites, though, so I doubt the mainstream media or Oprah Winfrey will be doing a heart-strings-type story on their plight anytime soon. :no: [/quote]

    An Afrikaner whose family has lived in South Africa for hundreds of years, probably has a lot to answer for.

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