Women going to war?

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  • #109712
    PremedRNPremedRN
    Participant

    When a male above the age of 18, here in the US, fills out his FAFSA form to apply for grants from the government to attend college, he must check whether or not he will enlist himself as volunteering to be drafted into the military. If he chooses not to (the way I get it) governmental grants/aid may not/ or wont be granted. For women, this is never an issue.

    The most part of me thinks this is totally unfair. I dont want my sons to have to be enlisted to get help to pursure their dreams if I could not financially support them myself. I cringe at this. Sure, fighting for our country is an honorable thing but should be truly volunteered, not a forced exchange of something, to get one’s self out of poverty, for instance.

    I understand that it is a concern, that someone should stay home not engaged in military responsibilities, to raise any children they may have. This is an argument as to why women should not have to enlist themselves. In a way, I see women not having this dilemma…of having to enlist for undergrad education, is a form of discrimination on the male’s behalf. In another way, it reinforces the femininistic idea in our culture/society that women are weak.

    So, the question at hand is:

    Should males have to enlist themselves in the event that our nation needs them in return for grants to help with undergraduate education, when women dont have to?

    “Joe comes from a socioeconomically disadvantaged backround, he wanted to change this by obtaining a degree. Since his family could not help with college expenses, he had to enroll to be called to fight for out nation. Joe died accross seas, before he could obtain his educatinal goals.” “Oh look, there’s Johny. He comes from a well educated family who can afford to help with his college expenses, therefore, he didnt have to add his name to the list. See him walking accross that stage to receive his diploma?! Do you also see that empty seat amongst the college graduates?”

    What kind of message is this?!

    #109714
    DONOTDELETE ****DONOTDELETE**
    Participant

    Actually, all men ages 18 – 25, including non-citizens who set up permenant residence in the US, are required to register for selective service. They can be registered for this in many formums, when they vote, get a drivers license or as you mentioned above, when they apply for financial aid…pretty much any goverment run agency offers or requires selective service registration. This is done to insure a more diverse group of male citizens is choosen. If it was just the FAFSA then I would definately agree with you but its not.

    Personally, I do not like the idea of randomly drafting young men period, as I have sons of my own. Hopefully, we will not see any more massive conflicts like that of WWI,WWII and vietnam. Then maybe our armed services can remain strictly volutary.

    #109716
    PremedRNPremedRN
    Participant

    Yes your are right. If a male over the age of 18 gets called to war, he must go regardless or flee the country. I was focusing on just one of the issue or topic of debate. But certainly, in the whole realm of things, if you are a male you have no choice! I dont agree with this. I think one should have choice, but the US would rather sacrifice some unwanting to be soldiers to keep their power than to run out of men, in the evident the opposition is that fierce. Dont get me wrong, I do enjoy my freedom, liberty and all that, and am appreciative of those who have fought, and are still fighting for it. I would feel better in knowing these men werent made to.

    So do you think both women and men should be drafted if they meet a certain criteria?

    Should it be on a volunteer basis to be drafted to defend the US our rights,liberties, and power?

    #109718
    efex101efex101
    Participant

    I do think that women should also be drafter *if* the need arises BUT women should not be put right there in the front lines. Why? I have been there and done that and experienced what happens when women are put in combat situations. Although women will hopefully never be part of the Infantry, Special Forces, Rangers, or whatever (this is for the Army I have no clue about the Marines) sometimes we were darn near close enemy lines even is support roles. Sooo, yes women should be drafted just like men but to do other things that are just as important if not more than actual combat.
    Now, I too have a son and a daughter and I do realize that one day (God forbid) my son and possibly daughter may be drafted but I also understand that war will always be an essential evil of almost any country. In many countries military service is mandatory, we are one of the few with an all volunteer force. To maintain our quality of life and freedom it is sad to say that often times the U.S. will have to go to war….

    #109720
    LeafLeaf
    Participant

    Efex,
    Can you expand on what you said in the above post? I’m interested in your experiences. What is it about the front line that may make it undesirable for women to serve there? Is it a size/weight thing? Role of women?

    I’m honestly just curious. I really know nothing about the military/war and would like to learn more. Thanks
    Leaf

    #109722
    DONOTDELETE ****DONOTDELETE**
    Participant

    Well, first off we are not physiologically equal to men for example RBC content to name one, and most women (there are exceptions but I only met two my whole time in the Army) cannot carry the same weight in the ruck and do the same things that men can do somewhat effortlessly. Also, for some reason men want to protect the female soldiers at the expense of not only their safety but the safety of the whole platoon/company/unit. Third most of the women that went became impregnated to get out of the combat zone, at the end it was only three of us left with all the male soldiers. There are so many issues that it would be hard to put them all on this board. Sometimes women just want to do things w/o thinking about how it will effect others all in the name of equal rights. Once I was there and saw what happened I came to realize that it is not just about us, but of the morale/cohesion/effectiveness of a unit that may be compromised….just so we can state that “oh women can do anything blah blah blah”. Well the sad fact is that no, we cannot do everything at the same level and that is the level that is needed for a combat situation more later….

    #109724
    PremedRNPremedRN
    Participant

    You would definately have more expertise in this area efex101. I do agree with the point how men, in some areas, are more biologically favored to do certain things such as lifting, carrying heavy packs, etc. It seems nothing can take away men wanting to protect the women. Especially in our society/culture. This is not very good when willing to compromise the whole unit.

    If our country continues to have males registered in the selective services without choice, females should have to also and what roles each will play in a war could be negotiated. Of course, I think those selecting the men and women, before being drafted, should take in account whether they have children etc.

    I guess there is no good answer to this. Although I feel being drafted against one’s will is not right, there has to be military to protect our rights, and liberties when it is threatened.

    I dont know, I think there maybe enough volunteers (those choicing to join the military now and who have already been in and are still active)to avoid such drafting. Apart of me feels, if you need more militia than that, as in the US there is a large number, something is not right. Look at Vietnam.

    —-Dana

    #109726
    DONOTDELETE ****DONOTDELETE**
    Participant

    Yeah I totally agree with you on the part about hey let us all be drafted if the need arises but I really doubt that it will ever come to that. Although recruiting is somewhat down, I do not think that we will be facing mandatory service any time soon (I hope)… also remember although you may not be aware of this that once a soldier has been released from the Army, the Army has ten years that they could “potentially recall you back”. I barely missed the post 9/11 events…by very few years..and with my prior military experience I was prime candidate 😮

    #109728
    PremedRNPremedRN
    Participant

    No, I was not aware of that! Good thing you got released when you did! Yikes.

    Correct me if Im wrong, but I also feel that if you received anything from the government (financial aid) for example, you can best believe you are more than likely to be the first called.

    I think this because some of the docs who voluntarily joined the reserves for the government to pay for med school, just so happened to be, out of the many others who joined for nothing in exchange, the ones called to duty having to leave their practice obviously, with the other docs to take care of their patients. I know they were well aware of this possiblity before the agreement…

    #109730
    efex101efex101
    Participant

    Oh yeah, nothing is free in the military and people that sign up do *know* but somehow some are in shock when they get called up. This is one of my pet peeves folks thinking that it is a free ride and sign up w/o really being committed to the whole military idea. It really ticks me and my husband off (he is still active duty) when we hear about those individuals complaining that they were called up well duh. I guess some think that it is okay for them to get free money from the military I really do not get it. Many folks see it as a free ride or something and there is no such thing in life..when you sign up to be in the army reserve yeah you could potentially go to war but it really irks me that they go like “what? you mean I have to go fight? OMG!” I tell you some people are dumber than a bag of hair he he :rotfl:

    #109732
    PremedRNPremedRN
    Participant

    Haa! Yeah, I know this family practice doc (he didnt complain about being drafted to Afghanistan, but Im SURE he was shocked). Anyway, he said he had to perform amputations on kids and adults. He is a FP, for heaven’s sake! He came back a changed man. I can certainly tell the difference. He was gone about 9 months.

    #109734
    chylothoraxchylothorax
    Participant

    I am an active duty AF doc and agree with most everything efex says about this. BTW, it’s not only citizens, perm residents, but even nonresident (e.g. illegal) aliens are expected to enroll with the SS! Right…
    Anyway, I think if there ever becomes a danger of having a draft again possibly there will be something new about females being included for “fairness’ sake.” However, doing something like this with the registration process right now would really be more for show than anything, because in the military the primary concern is not the right of the individual (which is really what this issue is about, in my mind). The primary concern is always the mission, and whatever policy changes are made are in lieu of this.

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